tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5512311610334754148.post5950338837404926545..comments2023-04-20T12:46:11.858-06:00Comments on The Ancestry Insider: Monday Mailbox: Ancestry Removing Find A Grave Photos?The Ancestry Insiderhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02490682912125335188noreply@blogger.comBlogger33125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5512311610334754148.post-20102901018298907192012-08-13T10:10:56.045-06:002012-08-13T10:10:56.045-06:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.fizzbombhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04962660132694459975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5512311610334754148.post-6805887426403172602012-08-13T09:28:43.502-06:002012-08-13T09:28:43.502-06:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16076342988166463426noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5512311610334754148.post-61074926783184428272012-08-10T13:04:30.283-06:002012-08-10T13:04:30.283-06:00I think a lot of people have a misunderstanding as...I think a lot of people have a misunderstanding as to what Find A Grave is. Find A Grave is NOT a genealogy site. Read the Find A Grave FAQ's. Find A Grave is a grave registration site. The mission of Find A Grave as stated in the FAQ's is "registration of the final disposition" of a deceased person. Although some people may find the info on a Find A Grave memorial to be a helpful resource in their genealogical research, a lot of people who use Find A Grave are not genealogists, and are not the least bit interested in "sharing genealogical information". Not all contributors on Find A Grave are "photo volunteers". Again, read the Find A Grave FAQ’s about what a photo volunteer is and how to become a photo volunteer. I am a Find A Grave member but I have never registered to be a photo volunteer. <br /><br />My main reason for being a Find A Grave member is for documenting older cemeteries for preservation purposes. The photos I take are for documentation of MY memorials on Find A Grave, not for ancestry.com. As stated in previous posts, it is the ancestry.com TERMS that many of the photographers object to…and that’s not being selfish. People have many different reasons for being a part of Find A Grave, and many are NOT genealogists, so you are wrong to assume that all members of Find A Grave are photo volunteers and that they post information on the site to “share for genealogical purposes”. <br /><br />Seventy five percent of the cemeteries in my area are not owned by a cemetery corporation, so they are not a “business” as poster Kevin implied. They are owned or were owned by specific families - some of which no longer have family members alive to care for them. Some are community cemeteries on property donated by coal companies that no longer exist, and churches that no longer exist, and in towns that no longer exist. Many of these cemeteries are located in rural unincorporated townships and are maintained by non-profit cemetery associations who depend solely on donations to maintain the cemeteries. <br /><br />So if you really care about your ancestors, instead of copying and pasting information onto family trees, why not go out and help clean their graves and the cemeteries that they are buried in if they are not under perpetual care (and many older ones are not). This is one of the best ways to honor them. Even if you live across the country…you make trips for other purposes like vacations, etc., right? MY purpose in posting the memorial, the headstone photo, the cemetery, and the directions to the cemetery, along with some pertinent family information on Find A Grave is so that you can identify the deceased as your family member, find their grave, and hopefully help care for their final resting place. It is at the very least your moral responsibility if your ancestor is buried in one of these “orphaned” cemeteries. Don’t leave it to strangers to care for your ancestor’s grave if you or someone in your family is capable of doing so. If you or your family members are not physically able to care for the final resting places of your ancestors, then DONATE to the people who ARE caring for the graves. They need equipment and gasoline to power their equipment, and other items and supplies to maintain those cemeteries, so why don’t some of YOU stop being "selfish and shortsighted" and DONATE your time or your money to help care for your ancestor's grave. If you would show some interest in your ancestor’s final resting place AND take some action to help preserve and maintain it, as I do, then you will be fulfilling MY purpose on Find A Grave, verses YOUR purpose on Ancestry.com or any other genealogy site.waleluhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13270786339190937103noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5512311610334754148.post-47560006579265049092012-06-23T08:13:27.552-06:002012-06-23T08:13:27.552-06:00I've been a Find a Grave volunteer for almost ...I've been a Find a Grave volunteer for almost five years. I have no problem with others using the photos I've taken of headstones. That's why I take them. Of course I understand that there are some people who are very proprietary (a nice word for "selfish") who don't want their photos used on any other Internet site. I don't understand this way of thinking other than that these people are very controlling and this is their way of exercising power. Unfortunately, there are always those few who sour an otherwise unselfish acts of taking volunteer photos by their selfish acts. <br />I make a proclamation here and now, ANYONE CAN USE ANY PHOTOS I TAKE OF GRAVESITES. EVEN THOSE SELFISH, SHORTSIGHTED PEOPLE WHO CALL THEMSELVES VOLUNTEERS.Ronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11161930319264523497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5512311610334754148.post-39251555123776072372012-06-01T06:02:06.401-06:002012-06-01T06:02:06.401-06:00Deborah Lafky wrote: "Once they are out ther...Deborah Lafky wrote: "Once they are out there, you have essentially given up control over that material irrespective of copyright law---unless you are rich enough to afford a long legal battle with low probability of success."<br /><br />A legal battle is not necessary - filing a DMCA claim works every time. Ancestry (or any hosting service) will remove the infringed material to avoid incurring their own liability.fizzbombhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04962660132694459975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5512311610334754148.post-59935587401383841272012-06-01T04:28:00.965-06:002012-06-01T04:28:00.965-06:00Really, it seems rather naive to expect that one w...Really, it seems rather naive to expect that one would post photos to a widely accessible website and imagine that no one will copy them. It's been a hard lesson for some people to learn: if you don't want anyone to copy your pictures, don't put them on the internet. Once they are out there, you have essentially given up control over that material irrespective of copyright law---unless you are rich enough to afford a long legal battle with low probability of success.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04671007535603200081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5512311610334754148.post-39440199913431126112012-05-09T09:45:35.120-06:002012-05-09T09:45:35.120-06:00Give me a break people! If you don't want othe...Give me a break people! If you don't want others to take your photos then don't post them online. You people crack me up!I have been doing Genealogy for over 20 years and some of you people are plain out selfish. <br /><br />Ronald Basgard<br />Toledo, OHRonald Basgardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05528433883680205260noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5512311610334754148.post-18823638409770120832012-05-06T20:35:58.143-06:002012-05-06T20:35:58.143-06:00Kevin, I find your comments comical. Using your a...Kevin, I find your comments comical. Using your analogy of a business: When you go to a professional football game and take a photo, the photo belongs to you not the football teams. Have you looked on Google maps for your address? Bet you'll find a photo of it. There are many cemeteries that are publicly owned and therefore you do not need permission to photograph, no different than photographing in the city park. Also, if you are the photographer, yes, the photos are yours.Sparkeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16077658347728473428noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5512311610334754148.post-34712037004445932982012-03-29T15:33:06.978-06:002012-03-29T15:33:06.978-06:00Good reply. I respect those who want to protect th...Good reply. I respect those who want to protect their work also. <br />In my experience, if someone has a private tree on ancestry, no one can even see the photograph unless they get permission from the owner. That permission may need to include whether the photo's may be copied or not. If the person puts a private photo on a public tree---well, it is public and the owner does have another option.<br /><br />For myself, I have done a few different things. First I only put up personal pictures that I don't mind others copying. Then, If someone else has pictures I would like to include in my book-I email and explain why I want the pictures and ask for permission to use them. The ones who have bothered to answer have all said yes [I have filed the permission answers to also publish with the book]. Many do not bother to answer and have not been on their tree for several years, so it makes you wonder?<br /><br />Many pictures I have seen are on several different sites-for instance, I saw some pictures on this site that I also have seen on ancestry and on a name search under images. On this site the owner's name is under the picture but, unless I was curious as to the legal issues of using a picture for my book, I might have mistakenly copied one.<br /><br />Perhaps as genealogist this is an issue we need to make more public.dlhhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12518657017998174493noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5512311610334754148.post-46184500034386180692012-03-05T13:03:25.793-07:002012-03-05T13:03:25.793-07:00I am a FindAGrave contributor and a artist/photogr...I am a FindAGrave contributor and a artist/photographer. In my profile I state: <br />"As an artist/photographer I hope to give back to this community with fulfilling tombstone requests in my area.<br /><br />Feel free to use any of the tombstone photographs I have taken for your own personal genealogy work. Good research would dictate a footnote to source of information, but it is not necessary.<br /><br />Copyright: The photographs I have taken MAY NOT be used for duplicate memorials on FindAGrave nor for publications that will be sold without prior permission. Thank you!"<br /><br />I am wondering if this is clear enough? What does this say to others? Let me know if I need to be more specific.Aud5reyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10310800837519282261noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5512311610334754148.post-72243556546384871182012-02-20T15:28:18.797-07:002012-02-20T15:28:18.797-07:00I find this entire issue comical. How many "...I find this entire issue comical. How many "photographers" obtain written permission from the cemetery to take the photo in the first place? Yeah, exactly. You can't just wonder into any other business and start snapping photos and call them yours, cemetery is no different. And if it is that important to you, don't post them on a website (or at least watermark them).Kevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11687945973673817945noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5512311610334754148.post-37366364414275957392012-02-14T15:38:34.190-07:002012-02-14T15:38:34.190-07:00I know I'm a little late in commenting on this...I know I'm a little late in commenting on this post, but I had a similar situation...in reverse. I had a public tree on Ancestry with photos, gravestone images, copies of death certs, etc. Someone took many of my photos from my Ancestry tree and posted them on Find-A-Grave, including copies of the death certs. They were for my husband's family and my father-in-law was NOT happy that his parents death certs had been posted on Find-A-Grave. I find this all very interesting because Ancestry's response was very much the opposite. I posted the photos on my tree, so basically they were fair game for anyone to copy and repost anywhere they wanted. My tree is now private and I only grant access to it very selectively with the express consent of the guest not to copy photos or documents. <br /><br />I don't understand why people don't just follow the simple rule: "Ask first!"Donnahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09129409326641528850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5512311610334754148.post-62825859515621538422011-12-19T05:33:08.361-07:002011-12-19T05:33:08.361-07:00Bobby, I'm sorry to hear your photos have been...Bobby, I'm sorry to hear your photos have been pirated, but glad that you filed a claim with Ancestry. By law, companies/web-sites are required to "act expeditiously" when informed of the infringement. If 30 days have passed since filing your claim, contact them again, ask for the status and tell them you expect the claim to be completely resolved no later than 2 weeks from the date of your email (may help to include the phrase "act expeditiously").fizzbombhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04962660132694459975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5512311610334754148.post-84850826676802987042011-12-19T04:12:06.488-07:002011-12-19T04:12:06.488-07:00All the images on my website were watermarked (100...All the images on my website were watermarked (1000+) with my URL and even so many have been copy/pasted into ancestry.com and mundia.com so this topic is of interest to me. I have followed the procedure for their copyright department and sent through details, links etc. Now to wait, which has been awhile already. I have made one friendly followup but they dont seem to acknowledge your email. As a result of re-internet posting, i no longer keep large size images on my website. So, in the mean time, i'm just waiting for Ancestry.com to say something to me.Bobbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00671452203983469283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5512311610334754148.post-39221083156646431352011-11-06T11:19:15.977-07:002011-11-06T11:19:15.977-07:00I'm a Findagrave submitter. I have no problem ...I'm a Findagrave submitter. I have no problem with people using the photos I post. However, out of common courtesy I expect to be given credit for the photo. I recently found 3 people that had posted a headstone I'd posted on Findagrave. Two had given me credit for the photo, one had not. I filed a complaint with ancestry for the one that had not posted the credit. I don't believe giving credit is too much to ask for the effort I put in.<br />LarryLarryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15043919406374487382noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5512311610334754148.post-34807473125662847762011-10-02T21:07:54.591-06:002011-10-02T21:07:54.591-06:00Wow! I have taken 1000's of photographs for Fi...Wow! I have taken 1000's of photographs for Find a Grave. The sole reason for doing so -- to share! Now I know why so many people were speaking badly of Ancestry on FAG's forums! I take these photos and add a memorial to know these loved ones are always remembered and can be shared with everyone. Please feel free to use any of my photos as I stomped, climbed, drove, sweated, froze, and enjoyed every cemetery (well not all)!Ressiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11214903522312906422noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5512311610334754148.post-9996519932643405352011-09-27T01:34:27.255-06:002011-09-27T01:34:27.255-06:00The problem as I see is that those people do not r...The problem as I see is that those people do not respond when you write to them. So your waiting forever.A rootdiggerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02642330951208433671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5512311610334754148.post-18412589586669142582011-08-29T21:50:36.733-06:002011-08-29T21:50:36.733-06:00Ancestry users must also realize that the photo th...Ancestry users must also realize that the photo that is seen on a tree is only a "display" rather like a movie on a theater screen. The movie isn't actually on the screen, it is only displayed there. Although a tree owner can remove the display of the photo from their tree, the photo itself remains on the Ancestry server and only Ancestry staff can remove it. Therefore, it is necessary to follow the infringement claim process to have that unauthorized copy completely removed from Ancestry.<br /><br />Also, in response to Patti: The reality is that I take photos of grave markers to photo-document cemeteries, which has been my hobby for many years (far longer than I have been contributing to F.A.G.). The photos are **shared** on free web-sites, of my choosing, so others can see the marker and verify the information gleaned from it. The photos are for preservation and my own enjoyment rather than "for" a person or even a web-site. You most certainly can use them by creating a link **to** the authorized copy (where the photographer placed them). If you were to publish a book, you definitely need the express written permission of each photographer (unless the photo is old enough to have passed into public domain) lest you violate copyright law and open yourself up to that liability.fizzbombhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04962660132694459975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5512311610334754148.post-36950988386713291122011-08-29T21:22:37.856-06:002011-08-29T21:22:37.856-06:00The creator of any work--be it a photograph, blog ...The creator of any work--be it a photograph, blog post, newspaper article, book, song, etc-- automatically owns the copyright. "Copyright" means exactly what it says--the create owns the rights to control how copies of that content are used. They can grant you permission to copy--but you have to ask; you may not assume. <br /><br />If the creator of a work chooses to publish that work on a website (such as Find a Grave, it is there for anyone to appreciate it--and to use it for personal uses (such as save it or print it, and use the information in your research). But you have no "right" to distribute a "copy"-- which is what you are doing when you take the photo and publish it somewhere else. <br /><br />I am glad to see that Ancestry took this action, and glad for this blog post too. <br /><br />BTW. Ancestry trees are not private, even if you mark them private. Realize that anything you put on Ancestry, becomes the property of Ancestry. That's why I never ever upload anything to a tree.BlueberryJanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10506994688553055169noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5512311610334754148.post-55009822975399490922011-08-29T18:45:05.166-06:002011-08-29T18:45:05.166-06:00MidwestAncesTrees, I was not, in any way, suggesti...MidwestAncesTrees, I was not, in any way, suggesting anyone "Hot Link". Please re-read my comment. Both Ancestry's "Web Links" and linking within a source citation (on an Ancestry tree) are TEXT LINKS, which neither steal bandwidth nor infringe copyrights. I do suggest you familiarize yourself with those features/capabilities so that you can teach your students how to use them. If you have been promoting taking photos, and other items, from other sites, that is truly shameful.fizzbombhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04962660132694459975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5512311610334754148.post-40928778521934632882011-08-29T18:28:30.429-06:002011-08-29T18:28:30.429-06:00"americansaga said...
Wow. What a can of wor..."americansaga said... <br />Wow. What a can of worms. <br /><br />I recently added one photo to my family tree from another member that originated from Find a Grave. Guess I better track it down and remove it until I get permission.<br /><br />The copyright notice says: "The photograph may be used solely for personal, informational, and internal purposes." which suggests to me I could download it for personal use, but I can't publish it (put it on a public website).<br /><br />Does ancestry.com have a way for us to attach a photo to a public family tree but hide it from public view? Seems like an obvious option they could add to the photo uploads."<br /><br />So, what you're asking is a way to HIDE you're copyright violation and you're asking Ancestry to ABET you you in that violation. Sweet.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5512311610334754148.post-9415672889840955202011-08-29T18:07:33.336-06:002011-08-29T18:07:33.336-06:00You do need to read the fine print on every site. ...You do need to read the fine print on every site. Sites like IowaGravestones.org prohibits hotlinking per their website: "HOT LINKING PROHIBITED: Direct linking to the graphics on this web site is prohibited. This is considered "Hot Linking" and in effect you are stealing bandwidth from this web site. Images used on your site must be saved to your computer or server and not referenced in your html code to the images located on our server. Embedding images located on any domain or sub-domain belonging to IOWAGRAVESTONES.ORG from your html documents is considered bandwidth theft." From this page: http://iowagravestones.org/terms.phpCeltic Treehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00722841959389221214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5512311610334754148.post-87748369506601895162011-08-29T15:32:41.725-06:002011-08-29T15:32:41.725-06:00My name is Jackie Wilson Goddard and I am glad you...My name is Jackie Wilson Goddard and I am glad you have chosen to use your blog to bring a very real problem to light. However, I would like to point out a few lessons which were omitted:<br /><br />--- Users should read, and understand, the "terms of use" documentation on any site they use. Documents such as Ancestry’s “Terms & Conditions” as well as their “Content Submission Agreement” and Find A Grave’s FAQs. Each addresses the issue of copying something that belongs to someone else. Ancestry’s “Content Submission Agreement” is explicit by having, in bold, “Be aware that content, including photographs, even if submitted to a site of which you are a member, belongs to the creator or submitter and you should not reproduce it without permission of the owner”.<br /><br />--- When you add a media item to Ancestry, you are not only agreeing that others can see and use it, you are also agreeing that Ancestry can re-distribute that item in whatever manner they deem appropriate. If that item does not belong you, you are giving away someone else’s rights. Can I give my neighbor permission to use your car even though I have no legal authority to do so? Or, can I give my neighbor permission to dig up flowers from your yard?<br /><br />--- Copying a photo to Ancestry is completely unnecessary as Ancestry provides the “Web Links” feature to prevent users from infringing copyrights. Users can also set up a “Source” and then link directly to the Find A Grave memorial in the citation. Likewise, if you have your own site, you should link to the item rather than copy. <br /><br />--- The common courtesy we learned as children “Ask first” still applies. The worst that can happen is receiving the answer “No”. The last time I checked, “No” is neither a four-letter word <br />:-) nor an answer which should never been given. It is, in fact, the only logical answer for certain questions (“Honey, does this make me look fat?”). <br /><br />I’m glad people have contacted Joanie and asked permission to use her photos. Unfortunately, that has not been my experience. In the nearly six years I have been contributing to Find A Grave, less than twenty have asked for permission to use my photos. All save one were “after the fact” as unauthorized copies of the photos were already on another site. On the other hand, literally hundreds of my photos have been copied to Ancestry and other sites. <br /><br />A miniscule percentage of those who take the photos ever contribute information or photos to the corresponding Find A Grave memorial. Many of these people say how sad they are that I am “unwilling to share”. Hmmm. I suppose it would be alright with them if I copied photos on their Ancestry trees and posted them on Find A Grave? While that may be okay for others, the woman I see in the mirror would continually remind me what I did was wrong, legally and morally, but even more, in the eyes of the parents who raised me to do the right thing.fizzbombhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04962660132694459975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5512311610334754148.post-4072604954998795172011-08-29T14:19:52.768-06:002011-08-29T14:19:52.768-06:00In short; if you don't have the photographer&#...In short; if you don't have the photographer's permission and/or didn't take the photo yourself, you do not post the photo.Billlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15576269592629117857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5512311610334754148.post-26865100938390098162011-08-29T13:43:10.019-06:002011-08-29T13:43:10.019-06:00For some of us, we object to having our photograph...For some of us, we object to having our photographs taken from Find A Grave and placed on Ancestry because of the following line in Ancestry's Terms of Service: "By submitting content to Ancestry, you grant Ancestry, the corporate host of the Service, a license to the content to use, host, distribute that Content and allow hosting and distribution of that Content, to the extent and in that form or context we deem appropriate."<br /><br />This can be interpreted to mean that I'm giving up my copyright to Ancestry and I'm certainly not doing that. I have, and I will continue to ask that my photos taken from Find A Grave NOT be posted on Ancestry without my express permission.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com