tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5512311610334754148.post9083801701913726472..comments2023-04-20T12:46:11.858-06:00Comments on The Ancestry Insider: Specify the Source of the SourceThe Ancestry Insiderhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02490682912125335188noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5512311610334754148.post-87860522719093706982011-05-22T19:31:40.698-06:002011-05-22T19:31:40.698-06:00Dear ProGen Referencer,
I've checked www.prog...Dear ProGen Referencer,<br /><br />I've checked <a href="http://www.progenealogists.com/sourcetypes.htm" rel="nofollow">www.progenealogists.com/sourcetypes.htm</a> and found Natalie Cottrill is advocated the same division of concepts that BCG does, separating source type (original vs. derivative) from information type (primary vs. secondary). <br /><br />However, she's deviated from the standard taxonomy by adding a 3rd source type: "copy of original." <br /><br />I think there is merit in making three divisions as she does. Photographic copies are closer to originals in evidentiary value than to textual derivatives. I wouldn't be surprised if BCG makes this change in the future. <br /><br />Until such a change, I think it confuses people to deviate from a standard taxonomy (the present situation being a case in point), so I will continue to use the genealogical standard.<br /><br />-- The InsiderThe Ancestry Insiderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02490682912125335188noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5512311610334754148.post-46955763522478918582011-05-08T12:59:34.764-06:002011-05-08T12:59:34.764-06:00It looks to me as though the earlier commentators ...It looks to me as though the earlier commentators go hung up on your chart rather than the examples you gave below the chart, which are pretty standard. I was taught--and teach others--that the whole idea of sources is to enable others to track your research and verify your "facts,"<br />which your examples clearly do. I would agree with those who question the use of words like "derivative" when teaching newcomers.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5512311610334754148.post-46414930343482279312011-05-07T14:17:22.883-06:002011-05-07T14:17:22.883-06:00Dear Mike and other commenters,
I have some confl...Dear Mike and other commenters,<br /><br />I have some conflicting objectives for this series and I'm starting to think that is why you are encountering problems. <br /><br />The objectives:<br /><br />1. Show beginners how easy it can be to cite A.com and FS.org historic record collections.<br /><br />2. Convince FS.org and A.com that they need to shoulder the heavy lifting, so that citations to their collections <i>can</i> be easy for beginners.<br /><br />3. Convince non-beginners that what I am showing beginners is credible (for citing A.com and FS.org historic record collections).<br /><br />4. Convince users that Mills citation guides are <i>absolutely</i> necessary for citing archive sources.<br /><br />5. Pass on some insights I gained during a year's study of citation issues.<br /><br />From the comments I'm getting, I fear I'm providing too much detail to accomplish #1 and not enough to accomplish #2.<br /><br />I'm going to push forward with my approach for the time being, although it just occurs to me that articles could have a section at the end for experts.<br /><br />Thank you all for your help,<br />-- The InsiderThe Ancestry Insiderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02490682912125335188noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5512311610334754148.post-66255632741795512882011-05-06T22:49:11.447-06:002011-05-06T22:49:11.447-06:00Insider,
Perhaps I read your post too hurriedly, ...Insider,<br /><br />Perhaps I read your post too hurriedly, but in looking at it again in your "source of the source" column, I see mainly what to me would be descriptions of the type of compiled source cited (i.e. the format).<br /><br />Looking at a handful of the pages you cited in EE!, one first notes that Ms. Mills' uses quotations around "source of the source". And then that that nebulous term seems to refer to either repositories (i.e. Such-and-Such Library) or in individual database on an online site, or a generic cited source. Also in the reference in the glossary on p. 824 where she says "source of the source" is used by some in preference to "indirect source", one should note that "source of the source" is itself not listed with its own glossary entry.<br /><br />I guess I am being too literal-minded in the way I view the specific examples you used, but it still seems to me that "source of the source" is non-standard (i.e. not having an accepted definition and preferred use) even though Ms. Mills lists various ways it is often used by others. And a term like "cited source" (since we often say 'citing XXX') would suffer the same possibilities of misunderstanding as "indirect source".<br /><br />Perhaps also I am being obtuse and your point was in fact how others vaguely and incorrectly label a "source of the source".<br /><br /><br />A side issue that springs to my mind, and possibly deserving of its own discussion, is the topic of a genealogy of sources in relation to derivative sources. One is often cautioned to seek independent sources, but without digging into various derivative sources it is often not obvious on the surface that several often-cited local sources for a certain family in fact spring from the same older derivative source which itself is of dubious value in that it does not cite its own sources. Tracking down such a genealogy of sources is very tedious but also illuminating. For example in regards to the names of wives not otherwise cited except through family lore, can one find the earliest family group sheet with such an assertion?MikeFhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16587230319820652536noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5512311610334754148.post-27486880756857645302011-05-06T11:49:33.189-06:002011-05-06T11:49:33.189-06:00Mike F,
The attempt is to use "Source of the...Mike F,<br /><br />The attempt is to use "Source of the Source" in the same way as EE! pp. 94, 166, 301, 348, 404, 427, 446, 577, 630, 783, 786, 824.<br /><br />What do you think?<br /><br />-- The InsiderThe Ancestry Insiderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02490682912125335188noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5512311610334754148.post-77944540722807272932011-05-06T11:48:20.878-06:002011-05-06T11:48:20.878-06:00Dear Anonymous,
I'll take a look at the ProGe...Dear Anonymous,<br /><br />I'll take a look at the ProGen page, but I think your use of "copy" is too restrictive. Think about how the term is used at large. "Clerk's copy" "Hand copy."<br /><br />I need to give this more study.<br /><br />-- The InsiderThe Ancestry Insiderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02490682912125335188noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5512311610334754148.post-7640919844471009212011-05-04T10:45:14.554-06:002011-05-04T10:45:14.554-06:00Insider,
In line with the comment above, I think ...Insider,<br /><br />In line with the comment above, I think you might do better to stick with terminology established in EE!. Calling something a "source of the source" is non-standard. More properly, it is the format of the source, and an element of a source citation. Even if you see a need to expand the meaning of an established term, I would prefer to see modifiers attached to that term rather than coming up with a new term that will confuse some readers and detract from efforts to use standardized terms in genealogy.MikeFhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16587230319820652536noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5512311610334754148.post-69448320333943722472011-05-04T05:43:49.191-06:002011-05-04T05:43:49.191-06:00Derivative sources and copies of sources are not t...Derivative sources and copies of sources are not the same thing. A derivative is a new work derived from a source, while a copy (like a microfilm) is a copy (which is not to say it is an accurate copy of the original).<br /><br />http://www.progenealogists.com/sourcetypes.htmAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com